Quite true. Of course Copenhagen and the up coming heath care bill will be hailed as the greatest Christmas gift to the American people since the US was formed. Yeah, the gift that few wanted, the gift that keeps on taking.

A utopia will never work, it's impossible. Besides, I never claimed nor implied a desire for a utopia of any kind. All I aim for, (every day) with the activism that I am involved in is the push of our founding principles. Essentially - The god damn universal right to life, liberty, and happiness (as well as our bill of rights), for everyone - religious beliefs, ethical dilemmas be damned.

What matters in our country, is our principles - not the eroding of such.

Americans - no matter who they are - have the natural right to live their life as they see fit, and to tell others who want to force their beliefs on them - to fuck off. It's sad, in my opinion, that many people are so driven by ignorance, religious blindness, heterosexism, that they are not willing to let others live as they see fit.

If only the shoes where switched, then maybe people would get the point.

So equality under the law is ignorance and a gay agenda? Nitro, you drink way too much of that kool aid. The government's obligation to recognize all of its citizens as equals under the law - is not equal to cultural acceptance. Just look at other things our government does that isn't accepted by most people.

It's a matter of law and principle.

First off, Nitro, I brought it up to prove a point - i.e. the "good intentions" that you support. Ironically given that you've repeatedly said that good intentions don't mean much.  I guess that's only for liberals right? Secondly, the term theory was used to convey sarcasm - i do apologize for not putting quotes around that, given the failure of the written to word to sometimes convey points made. Thirdly, quit being a dumbass. Aside from being a parapalegic, you can turn off a television or ignore what someone says. Come on Nitro, accept the accountability that comes with watching something you don't agree with, or replying to another individual's post.

~Alderic 

1) Like the same feeling that you and other conservatives on here have for your religion, tradition, and so on?

2) Good to see you know what I do Doc; as always, you're the well informed know-it-all we love. \s For the record, I research my opinions and think through them. (I also go with facts, not fairy tales)

Yes, many americans want health care reform; I also agree, many are not liking the current the bill.

No Mr. Einstein, it shows that our elected politicians lie their asses off; conservatives included. There's no logical basis for saying that liberals suddenly are exposed and do not care. You're not like all conservatives now are you? Neither are all liberals.

~AJ

Btw, I want to apologize for my rudeness, a wise man reminded me tonight that we sometimes forget that there are other people on the otherside of these posts/debates. Seeing the human in a person is of one of my core beliefs, and I fell short of it.

~AJ

Long read to make a point.

Has anyone ever read the Riverworld Series by Phillip Jose Farmer?  It is one of the best SciFi series ever written.  In it, a man, who can completely control his environment (due to technology), has set up his personal world.  In his personal environment, he had a huge house that he kept to his exact likings, but he kept the outside very hot and humid with all kinds of nasty bugs.  When another one of his fellows (who had his own personal environment) asked why he kept his area so nasty (relatively speaking), he said (paraphrasing) "How can you know the joy of an air conditioned house if you dont get to experience the nasty side of existence?".

In essence, America was not going to get better (just get worse slower without Obama) until we experienced hell.  Because if you dont know what hell is, you wont know what to strive for.  Obama is necessary so that at least in the short term, America and know what hell is, and fight to make sure we dont go there again (in the short term - man's knowledge is as short as his life span - in the grand scheme of things).

Now we just have to find someone who can lead us out of hell.

Children vote, but then they dont know anything.  Once they live and experience life, they learn (some do, others just become Pelosis and reids).  They loved Obama.  The smart ones are learning, the stupid ones never will.

You take my comment totally out of the context of the article and subsequent posts here and add what you wish to support your agenda. If you go way back to my examples you'll note that I referenced two events in the past, prior to my birth and hardly supporting any current agenda's I can think of.

You missed my point entirely. The person(s) offering the good intentions almost always feel it is fair and righteous. Not always the same for the people/person on the recieving end. I'm sure if you dig hard enough you can find some examples of where it was a good thing for the reciever (Here's one for you Toy's for Tot's... and a host of other charities), but I can name many more "good intentions" that change vast amounts of peoples lives, and not in a good way. I would rather make my own way through life that what the government might have "intended" for me. If your happy with the governments five year plan for AJ, good for you, just don't argue I'm wrong for not wanting it. 

I hear that.

Maybe a few more will wake up when they are asked to fork over their health insurance premium payments, or else. That Obama fever in 2008 might not feel so right in its present context. For the old folks, it might be a good idea to move to Nebraska, I hear the rest of the country will be insuring ($$$) that Medicare will be solvent there.

He is a liberal - what else would you expect?

A few more?  Odd thing about the first black governnor elected.  He won with just 50.1% of the vote.  But ask residents who voted for him, and he must have won 60-40%! 

So we have it with Obama.  He won about 52.5%?  In 3 years, I wonder if that will be about 45%?  The difference between the firsts?  One was competant and governed well.  The other is not competant and only a mind numbed robot will say he is doing anything well.

And it is not only Nebraska.  Mass, Conn, and LA got some very good plums as well!

Yeah, the list of "sweetheart" deals is starting to come out now that the bill can be read (I knew about the Louisiana purchase and Nebraska) more to follow I'm sure.

That is my exact point Nitro, good intentions from anyone is just like you say - not necessarily good. It doesn't matter if it is a religious person trying to save someone from the evil of homosexuality, or if it is a liberal who thinks they're helping people.

The way I see it, in regards to religious opposition to homosexuality/support for letting people live their lives (my original point), it comes down to two p.o.v.'s:

People trying to help people, albeit (perhaps) out of the good their heart, by changing them to what they expect. The whole idea that you want to save people from sin, while noble, fails to acknowledge that it doesn't help. It may be good intentioned, but sometimes it fails and as you said, [changes] not in a good way.

People pushing the beliefs they think are absolute (again well intentioned). In this case, they fail to acknowledge or respect any difference. Anything different isn't a celebrated thing, but more often the difference is misguided, unwise, unintelligent, and so on.

I just cannot agree to that.

Back to the government and intentions - I'm about sitting down and solving a problem, whether the best way is a democrat, republican, libertarian, socialism, communist or purple. If the issue can be solved, and I mean truly solved - then fuck parties.

Nitro, I went with what you said. You consistantly reference a gay agenda time and time again. You seem to think, as I've gathered from YOUR words, that I'm trying to push you into believing something. I'm not.

~A

How petty...

~A

I take it you do not mean the Jefferson one?

I don't see how it could be any worse than this.

It's "pursuit of hapiness" meaning you have the right to make yourself happy not the right to be made happy. Let's get this straight please. This is the reason so many are ignorant and/or confused because they don't read things properly and don't make it their business to make sure what they hear from others is correct. Commenst like these can make people misunderstand. BTW, I wasn't calling you ignorant, just in case.