I agree, but only in part. BO was pretty clear about his "intentions" and exactly where he intended to "take" the nation, but one had to look prior to the campaign to get that picture. Plenty of media, written, audio exists. The problem was that most voters didn't do their homework, otherwise they would have known what they were going to get. The socialist tendencies were quite evident to any that would take a cursory glance.

The campaign was just a culmination of the lies, half-truths, and promises he had to tell to garner support from the insatiable multitudes on the left, each with different, and at times opposing, agendas. 

As for reconcilliation... That farce of a "bi-partisan" meeting on Feb 25 was engineered solely to forcibly resurrect the left-for-dead heath care bill. The Republicans knew it was a trap. Don't go, you're the party of "NO", obstructionists, or have no ideas (does that cover the left's talking points), jam the bill through to "save" the American people. Go and offer solutions, didn't matter at all, the outcome was pre-determined, they were going to try to jam it through anyway. Personally, I believe it backfired. Do they really believe most people would fall for some bad theatrics? Like a stinker of a movie, one could smell this plot from the trailers. Lets hope the people are watching the rats shuffle from one back-door meeting to the next, and reject it even more. BO and the majority of Dem's seem oblivious to what the majority of the people want.

I don't believe I've ever witnessed a US administration with so much starting support and goodwill, squander it so quickly while failing to realize that's what they are doing. I want conservative candidates to win in 2010 and 2012 elections, but I want them to win on issues, not because people are sick of the incumbents. That only gives the posers opportunities.

Hi Daiwa,

I would like to ask you an honest question, with the understanding that I am not attempting to bait/troll or otherwise antagonize you, only in that I really would like to hear your opinion (and everyone else who reads this) on the matter.

Okay, 'nuff said. Now on to the meat and potatoes:

What is Obama doing that is so incredibly different from what Bush did over the last 8 years? Please, don't fall off your seat laughing or spew coffee at your monitor just yet. Step back and think aboot it seriously for a moment before answering.

From what I can see, Obama and the current democrat administration are massive hypocrites, but at the same time they should be loved by the right because, well,  they're doing pretty much the exact same thing that Bush and the neocons were doing.

Oh, there's a bit of window dressing on it and a new glitzy label stamped on it but scratch the surface and I think they're selling you the EXACT SAME DEFECTIVE PRODUCT!!!

Please allow me to explain my position:

1) Military- Obama and the democrats got into power largely because they campaigned against the Iraq war and prolonged overseas military deployments. But after the election they changed their tune mighty quick, are doubling down on Afghanistan and have gone pretty quiet on Iraq. Oh, and this year the combined defense budget is over 1 trillion dollars... that's the official DOD budget combined with the appropriations for Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as 16 intelligence agencies, as well as all the money that officially goes into other budgets like the Dept. of Energy for maintaining nukes but really at the end of the day is a defense cost.

Oh and let's not forget that you're unoficially backing another attempt to retake Mogadishu right now and conducting all kinds of interesting little operations in Pakistan and Yemen, renewed contracts with a nasty, nasty company called Xe services (formerly blackwater, a company demonized by the democrats when Bush was at the helm)

So, at the end of the day in the arena of defense and military operations, Obama is in many ways actually continuing and even expanding on what lil' Bush was up to.

2) Domestic economy- again, scratch the surface and Obama is little different than GWB. He has continued the massive bailout program started under Bush to save predatory and parasitic institutions while average folks have suffered.

Bush was very much pro-globalization. So is Obama.

Bush didn't really lift a finger to do anything about Climate change. Obama has paid lip service to it, but again, window dressing. If Obama were actually going to do a single thing aboot it, he would have done so at Copenhagen. His true colors showed there too when he opted to do nothing.

The 'green' economy- again, a bit of lip service from Obama to make him look different but at the end of the day, no major programs of any significance have been undertaken to revolutionize the U.S transportation or energy sectors. Same as Bush.

Guantanamo- still open, 'nuff said.

Taxes..... ah, here we go.... Obama is going to raise taxes on the middle class and everyone will burn in hell!!! RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!!! erm, wait. If he gets his way the top one or two percentile of the nation will see their taxes return to what they were before lil 'Bush. While they sure won't be happy aboot it, this is hardly a world-changing event.

Also, folks who make more than 250 grand a year will see their taxes go up. This has been played off by some as the end of the world as we know it. But, at the end of the day, the number of folks who fall into that income bracket is certainly not ridiculously large, and no way in hell does it come even close to a middle class income. There has been all kinds of talk that this will kill small business and the Ma and Pa entrepreneurs, but this is chicken little fear-mongering. Anyone with half a brain can get around this (and we would hope if you're a small business owner who pulls in more than 250K a year personal income you would have half a brain)

But the point on the taxes are, again, at the end of the day it's a relatively minor technical shift, not a game changer. It's simple window dressing, which if you haven't guessed is the scam du jour.

Let's look at some other areas where Obama and Bush are the same-

foreign policy- check! Obama's taking a 'hard stance' on Iran same as Bush did. There's been some meetings and such but again, window dressing. No real diff, just the appearance of such.

Israel/Palestine/Lebanon and the whole sort of general mishmash (WSOGMM)- There was all kinds of fear mongering that Obama would abandon Israel but it sure as heck aint happening. U.S dollars are still flowing in and the United States outright rejected the Goldstone report in it's entirety.

While there's been some random and dispersed semi-grumblings about Israeli settlement expansion, that's all it's been, no official action taken.

Anywho, these are just some of the areas where I see similarities between the democrats and republicans. At the end of the day, either party is gladly going to screw your nation over in the name of big business profits and predatory foreign policy.

The republicans at least will be nice enough to do it to your face, while the democrats are trying to do it behind your backs.

Oh, wait, there are a few areas where the two sides officially differ-

Gay rights, Abortion and gun control. If you haven't clued in yet, these are your 'food for the masses' topics which are the ultimate game show to keep you occupied. Many other nations have effectively and succesfully tackled the above topics and moved on. In the states however, mole-hills have been turned into mountains which have succeeded in giving both parties ample ammunition to fight eacher with while at the end of the day not really accomplishing anything.

Sorry for the lengthy reply, honest opinions wanted (again, not trying to flame/bait)

Hey, Arty.  How you doin?

OK.  I'm thinkin' this should be good.

I seem to remember something about Iraq being the 'wrong' war and Afghanistan being the 'right' war, the 'war of necessity'.  What campaign are you referring to?  Are we to assume that he had his fingers crossed behind his back and knew we were in on the joke?

Things have 'gone pretty quiet on Iraq' because the NYT, LAT & WP no longer care about it - it's outlived its usefulness in Bush's absence.  I have no problem with BO having 'stayed the course' in Iraq.  On the contrary, I'm pleased he chose to do so.  I think he had no other viable option, though, and merely acquiesced to reality.

The absence of the daily drumbeat of nastiness from the NYT, LAT & WP has actually enabled BO to do some things that Bush should have done but couldn't.  His critics being already in a lathered panic at DefCon 2, had he done them, the wailing would've been ever more deafening, if that were possible.  I haven't heard much criticism of BO from the right regarding Iraq or going after AQ & Taliban targets in Pakistan & elsewhere.  You don't hear much from the leftist press, either, lest too many people notice what you've noticed.

The bailout was wrong, IMO.  Bush was wrong to embrace it.  BO was even more wrong to enlarge it.  There is nothing inconsistent about being opposed to both men's actions and it's a little disingenuous to suggest BO's done nothing but 'continue Bush's policy'.

Suggesting there's no difference between Bush & BO on the domestic economic policy is rather bizarre, and seems to ignore at least one little issue that's been in the headlines recently - healthcare 'reform'.  You can argue that it's all just a matter of degree, but we're talking orders of magnitude here if so.

He can't figure out how to close it, and that makes him 'same as Bush'?

Just curious...  Have you owned a business that employed others, Arty?

Oh, yeah.  I'd forgotten how Bush had sucked up to Chavez & Castro.  He did seem to like Putin, so you got me there, and I have no idea what that whole 'Reset Button' business was all about.

Well, he promised a lot of things but did am about face on almost everything from minute one. Bush sad he would do A and he would do A in most cases regardless what the press said. But let me make this clear, you seem to be assuming we never criticized Bush for many of the things he did. Perhaps you forgot or conveniently ignored the times we said Bush was not a Conservative, that he was more like the Democrats when it came to expanding things that were of Welfare nature. But as Daiwa put in the above post you pointed to a few things Bush and BO have nothing in common which confuses me about your post.

Again, its my opinion that your question was based on the belief that none of us here critized Bush once and that just because BO is a Democrat that we are criticizing things he did that were exactly what Bush did. In that case it was not the action, but the hypocrisy behind it that we criticized. A man that promised the world to everyone but has yet to give even a stone to the American people.

But here is the irony of all of this. Most Republicans were freaking out when we say that not only did a Democrat with the White house but that they had majority in both houses with a filibuster-proof Senate and what have the Democrats accomplished so far? Absolutely nothing. Republicans made too much ado about nothing because in the end Democrats knew what they wanted was not what the people wanted and at this point it is the Democrats who are keeping BO from getting anything he wants. Many were actually smart enough to realize that their careers were not worth please BO. Considering how many have already refused to continue to run in the next elections, those had already inserted their foots in their mounths and not running was their only choice to at least keep their dignity.

You don't need Republicans or Conservatives to tell you what BO has done to this point. You need only to see how BO can't even get his own party members who control both houses to agree with him. Hell, even threats, cool speeches, redos and fake bipartisanship have left BO with a Gitmo still open, an unpassed healthcare bill that has mutated several times and an unemployment rate that won't go down even when they play with the numbers.

I'm curious where you got your figures for military spending this year (over 1 Trillion), especially since both the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars are just now approaching 1 Trillion dollars from their inception in 2003 until now. That would be a one year record, bigger news than health care, and all over the news. Funny I haven't heard a peep.

Other than that Daiwa and Chuck pretty much filled in the holes. I was going to respond yesterday, but you guys saved me a lot of typing. Thanks!

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Sad to say a bunch of replies in multiple threads got 'eaten for lunch' by the forum maintenance wizard.

Yea, and I do not have the time to recreate.  Bummer.

From the message above, Forums Really Did Go Boom.

There's something of a silver lining, though - all that 'Mumblespam' is gone.

The problem with Spam is that there is no end to it.  He just regurgitates his idiocies again.

It's really too bad, there were a few good debates/exchanges in progress on a couple of the articles. Ah life on the net.

Shame they do not have Carbonite.

This happened several years ago.  One of the members then actually was able to post some of the replies by examing their local cache.  I will look into that this afternoon.